Chris Rogers Training Log

This is very perplexing! You race 10 miles on a mostly downhill course at 5:40 pace average. Last year I averaged 5:15 on it. You run a loop course at 6:29 pace and call it easy. That would mean an effort of 6:04 for me if we were to translate our race performances into an easy pace in proportion. On your course and in the warm and windy conditions, 6:04 would be very close to the marathon pace effort for me or possibly right on the marathon pace, and I would definitely not be doing it unless I told myself it is a tempo and really focused.

I am more underclocked than other runners (in the sense that I relax at a slower pace relative to my race pace), but still this does not negate the fact that you run essentially your marathon race pace effort or faster thinking you are running easy. So it looks like you go into an overdrive on your aerobic runs and just drive the body into the ground without realizing it. You could probably try hitting one 5:30 mile after a mile or two of warm-up, and that might reduce the self-destructive drive for the rest of the run while giving you a bit of tempo work.

Sasha,

Admittedly, the effort on this run is on the hard end of an "easy" run. At the same time, I don't really consider it a tempo type run either. Prior to Boston I was doing 10-13 mile tempos on around 5:50-5:55 pace on a flat route. Since Boston, I've struggled to have good races/tempos (look no further than the Salt Lake 10 Miler as proof--struggling to 5:40 pace!). Perhaps my issue is that I need to strap on the HR monitor, keep the easy days a lot easier than they are and crank on the hard days. Any thoughts? For now I'm just trying to stay healthy until the Wasatch Back, take two weeks off to recharge the batteries a little, then look toward St. George.

HRM might be a good idea. Or a slower training partner. I think your muscle memory makes you run your best aerobic pace back from college days, while the muscles, bones, and other structural elements of your body are not there. I do not think taking time off is a good idea. Your muscles will get weaker, but the muscle memory would still be there. I think if you found a way to run no faster than 7:30 for as long as you can handle six days a week, drop all speed work except occasional races with no taper prior, and do that patiently for a couple of months, you'd see some good results. Maybe you could start running with Chad's group (Black Sheep) for their easy runs, just run and chat all the way to keep the pace slow enough.

Thanks Sasha--I think you're definitely right on the slower easy days. As I've started pouring over some of my better marathon training, it looks as though my best training involved some faster/tougher workouts and tempos, but the easy days were definitely easier (and the mileage, amazingly enough not all that high). I'm thinking about working back toward my training plan from my first marathon, but keeping more long runs in the mix (I crashed and burned the last 10K of that one).

Also--when exporting the data from this log, what is the best program to use? I tried excel, but got a long string of code entered when I tried it. Thoughts?

Chris, doing hard workouts without getting worn down is often the key paradox of marathon training. I've used the "Big Workout" philosophy with success. During the thick of marathon training, I do two hard, long workouts per week. Everything else is easy easy easy, and often short. So a typical week for me would be:

Sunday: off or 4-6 miles

Monday: 15 miles with 8-10 mile tempo, strides

Tues: 4 miles easy AM, 8 miles easy PM

Wed: 9 miles easy, strides

Thurs: 15 miles with 2-mile tempo and 8x1000m intervals

Fri: 5 miles easy AM, 7 miles easy PM, strides

Sat: 16-20 mile long run, easy pace.

When I say "easy pace", for me that's generally 7:00-8:00/mile. I have no issues with doing some 8:00 miles! Without the easy pace days, the Big Workouts would have worn me down, but without the Big Workouts, I never would have gained a high fitness level. So you need both, and its a bit of a balancing act.

Chris:

I've been able to look at the export of your data successfully with Open Office. It should, however, work with Excel, and if it does not I need to figure out why. Can you e-mail me a screenshot of what it looks like in Excel when you load it?

Regarding the crash and burn on the last 10 K - I used to do that a lot, and still do to an extent, but it is much milder. I used to think anything sub-6:40 was great after 20 miles, now anything slower than 6:00 is not that good and slower than 6:15 is a crash. The breakthrough happened in Top of Utah 2003. I attribute the success to the following:

Improvement in the diet - fuel system is cleaner, stores fuel better, feeds clean fuel while running, refueling is better during the race.

Consistent high mileage - no impulsive weeks of 90+, instead build up to it and hold it overtime.

Replacing impulsive extra long runs with moderate length long runs with a marathon pace tempo in the middle. Never run longer that what I am fit to do. Should feel no ill effects of a Saturday long run on Monday - long run should not interfere with regular training.

Paul,

Thanks for the input. What you're describing is exactly what I'm looking at moving toward. I'm going to start wearing the HR monitor on a more regular basis so I'm sure to keep the easy days truly "easy," then ramp up the workout days. I think right now, as Sasha pointed out, I've been driving myself into the ground by not backing off on the pace enough on down days.

Nothing to add to the running stuff but have been able to export the data to Excel. The exported data is comma delimited and for some reason Excel does not automatically delimit the data when the *.csv file is opened. I had to do it manually by highlighting the column of data and selecting Data->Text to Columns. Select the "Delimited" option and click "Next". Make sure that "Comma" is selected and that "Text Qualifier" equals the quote ("). The column headings may be off but your data will be in separate columns.

Thanks Andy--very helpful info. I was able to get all of my info into columns and sorted as needed. One more question... do you have problems with getting all of the "comments" to import? I can get all of my short entries, but most of the longer entries get cut off. Thoughts?